TAGQ (That's A Good Question)
TAGQ (That's A Good Question)
Burn the Undergrowth
This second podcast of Ben and Scott delves into Ben's training in intentional burning as a form of landscape management. Plus some culinary club observations. Sponsored by Vectaport Sales selling BioBags for now, I guess.
From podium.page:
When my dad, Scott Johnston, and I decided to tackle the whimsical world of podcasting, we never imagined how a simple conversation between family could weave such a rich tapestry of stories and insights. Our latest episode playfully opens with our debate on the pros and cons of using our full names in the intro—a choice that teeters between personal branding and just plain old privacy. Then, we meander through Scott's bio bag business escapades and my comical, albeit unrecognized, attempt at a Rajneeshee costume for Halloween, setting the stage for an episode brimming with laughter and unexpected wisdom.
As we wade further into the waters of podcast creation, we dissect the structures and content that captivate listeners, ranging from the mundane's magnetic pull to our take on the oversaturated universe of celebrity podcasts. But it's not all giggles and jest; the conversation takes a serious turn as we pivot towards discussing prescribed fire. This traditional land management practice sparks a fascinating talk on fire ecology, the role of human intervention, and the hope it represents in our climate-riddled world. Our back-and-forth explores the delicate balance required to maintain healthy ecosystems, and the cultural shift towards embracing these ancient practices once again.
Capping off our discussion, we reminisce about our childhood fascination with fire before igniting interest in our culinary club idea—a concept born from a desire to share the love of cooking and community. But it's not all food for thought; we close with the more practical matters of waste management, delving into the surprisingly complex world of choosing the right size bio bags for Scott's business. Whether you're here for the hearty laughs, the deep environmental discussions, or the simple joy of cooking, our latest episode offers a smorgasbord of topics to satisfy your listening cravings.
0:00:06 - Ben
Oh, oh.
0:00:08 - Scott
So just to start it, we got to say the name of the podcast and introduce ourselves.
0:00:16 - Ben
Okay, Okay, all right, let's see. Okay. Well, here we are again, and that's a good question Podcast hosted by me Ben.
0:00:42 - Scott
And and by me, ben's dad, scott johnston scott johnston. First last name very important yeah yeah, my last name is johnston as well yeah, well, it's part of part of the story. You know, I guess, do people do podcasts without their last name? I have to think about that, that's a good question. No most comedians like, say their last name.
0:01:20 - Ben
Yeah well, they're egomaniacs. If people want to Google us, I mean, it's information that you can find you don't need to get that information from the intro. You know, yeah, anyway, it's been a while.
0:01:41 - Scott
Yeah.
0:01:43 - Ben
You've been on the other side of the world, yeah, and on the other side of the world, and on the other side of the bay, and or no? You were in carmel, that's. That's south away from the bay. I've been across the bay, though san francisco bay, listener I went and picked, picked up.
0:02:03 - Scott
I went and picked up a pallet of two pallets of bio bags.
0:02:09 - Ben
Bio bags Bio bags, listener, are those green compostable bags that people put in their compost pails Because it makes the whole experience of kitchen scrap compost marginally less disgusting I think, vector, port sales and my dad goes through pallets of these bags because they're just. They never eat vegetables. They buy them and then they just throw them in the compost they need. He needs two pallets every year or so. No, that's not at all actually why he has two pallets of bio bags in the garage now.
0:02:54 - Scott
Right. I think the company that sells them could sponsor this episode.
0:03:02 - Ben
Alright, there's our sponsor for today.
0:03:04 - Scott
Bio bag.
0:03:04 - Ben
Making your kitchen scrap composting experience marginally less episode. All right, there's our sponsor for today Vectaport BioBag Making your kitchen scrap composting experience marginally less disgusting.
0:03:12 - Scott
Not BioBags, my company.
0:03:17 - Ben
Okay, all right. All right, you can edit that one out. Vectaport sales Bringing you BioBags for marginally less In smaller amounts.
0:03:30 - Scott
You don't want to buy a case of 600? Buy my box of 100. You don't?
0:03:35 - Ben
want to buy a case of just 30 from the grocery store. Buy Scott Johnston's case of 100 to 150. Only on Amazon.
0:03:48 - Scott
You can't get the two gallons in the grocery store.
0:03:51 - Ben
Oh, wow, wow, you're peddling a product.
0:03:55 - Scott
I got a corner on the two gallon market.
0:03:58 - Ben
Wow, has Amazon undercut you yet?
0:04:02 - Scott
Nope, biobag still gives me a yearly um saying I'm their guy putting it on amazon.
0:04:13 - Ben
Oh yeah, yeah, I've seen on tv too, actually probably in the mid to late 20s 2010s yeah, you saw ads for biobags, yeah yeah there used to be ads for biobags. Yeah, also cool thing about biobags is that they're actually compostable in home composting systems sort of sort of. I mean they don't uh, decompose as fast as orange peels.
0:04:43 - Scott
They're not certified for that and I can't say that Go ahead BioBag, don't put them in your home compost.
0:04:59 - Ben
So what you do instead is take your leaky bag of compost out, put it in your green dump, dump out the scraps into your home compost bin and then take this moistened green pseudo plastic mess and then throw it into your industrial green bin that the garbage folks take away.
0:05:26 - Scott
Yeah I don't know how much I'm going to pay for this space, this space to talk about it right now, I'm sorry.
0:05:37 - Ben
Do you have other material you want? No, I mean the company back's sale might not put up a lot, because it's not sounding that good well, first result when you look up bio bags on, or one of the first results when you look up bio bags on Amazon, isn't it? If you add two gallon, okay two gallon bio bags, or one of the first results when you look up biobags on Amazon, isn't it? If you add two gallon, okay?
0:06:11 - Scott
two gallon biobags. I got it.
0:06:12 - Ben
Which is the?
0:06:12 - Scott
size you want for your kitchen top countertop, kitchen compost.
0:06:18 - Ben
For the regulation kitchen compost pail yeah.
0:06:23 - Scott
Three gallons is way too much.
0:06:28 - Ben
Yeah.
0:06:29 - Scott
So what have you been up?
0:06:30 - Ben
to what have I been up to? I went dancing this morning. I went to a community Halloween party last night in the community hall.
0:06:46 - Scott
What did you go as?
0:06:50 - Ben
A Rajneeshee. Me and a couple other friends were all maroon. Are you familiar with the Rajneesh no, Formerly known as Antelope Oregon?
0:07:04 - Scott
Oh, that place.
0:07:08 - Ben
That place. Yeah, yeah, they wear, they wear deck, you series about it. They what they wear purple. Well, when they first moved, when the whole cult first moved to oregon, they were wearing orange and then, at later iterations of their society slash cult, they started wearing red and then, at another point, they started wearing maroon and purple and how many?
0:07:34 - Scott
people at the party said oh, I know what you are You're a Rajneesh.
0:07:40 - Ben
I had not a single one. We all showed up at different times. So you know, one person wearing all red, it was dark, can't really tell the fact that the three of us showed up at different points with different other groups doing their thing, so people had no idea. And they're just. They're my regular clothes, it's just. I happen to be wearing all red.
Yeah, so no, not a single person picked up on it would have been a lot more fun if there were a lot more of us, but for some reason people don't want to didn't you just tell people what you were doing I think it hits too close to home for people out here. What?
0:08:28 - Scott
didn't you just tell people what you're doing?
0:08:31 - Ben
yeah, the people that asked. Yeah, I, I didn't share the information with strangers in an unsolicited manner. Yeah, but yeah, I went to that. Uh, weird dancing. Really not that dj was. No, it just wasn't. It was. It was like it's like an ecstatic dance, sort it was a little funny it was a weird vibe.
I wouldn't call it edm. Edm is a little bit more. Oh, I I don't know if that comes across as anything, actually it was. It was like I don't know. It's like they had a preset on a keyboard and then they just boop and then pressed it and then just let that go for 15 minutes and then there was this guy that was just playing guitar over it and it was just. It was. It was boring, okay.
0:09:38 - Scott
Well, I had I had a better night of guitar shows than yesterday yeah, nice, we had we had a culinary club and uh, max and gary and I planned um. The theme of the culinary club was hawaii hawaiian food, hawaiian food.
0:10:01 - Ben
So we chose three hawaiian songs do you say culinary to be punny or because all of you that are part of this culinary club like, genuinely think like, no, it's pronounced culinary. I'm agnostic. Well, am I agnostic about it? I'm probably coming off as a little abrasive if I'm really agnostic about it, but I'm just going along with the group here.
0:10:30 - Scott
I thought it was weird when I first heard it. It's like that's culinary. No, it's culinary culinary club.
0:10:37 - Ben
Yeah well, I don't know the etymology of the word. Maybe that would change my mind, but anyhow you were yeah and and uh.
0:10:46 - Scott
Your. Your mother was the uh lead singer my mother was the lead.
0:10:53 - Ben
Okay, yeah, yeah she's like.
0:10:59 - Scott
Before the dessert, we brought out the guitars and brought out the sheet. The uh lyrics, nice and it was kind of a sit around the table, play guitars and sing, and yeah, it's a unique experience in my life yeah, cool, I feel like I mean music is music and dancing is sort of ingrained in us into our dna.
0:11:22 - Ben
I feel like as human and I think everyone has the kind of primal urge and a lot of ways to do it and it was meant to be this you know, community sort of event with you know, your friends and family, people practice music regularly more specific in that you know, with my wife yeah, okay, I've never quite played through a song together in 44 years. Got it, got it. That's sweet. I think there's more of that coming.
0:11:57 - Scott
Everybody liked it, everybody thought it was a good extension to this kind of thing, and that, yeah, was a good extension to this kind of thing. And it's much better live than it is recorded Definitely. Because everyone had their own vantage point and they were hearing and we got compliments for your mom and I got compliments for us singing harmony, which is like, okay, that's a new thing neither of you, neither of you are tone deaf, so yeah, probably haven't since.
0:12:39 - Ben
You know, maybe the last last time we went to catholic church or something you know yeah, yeah, different, different vibe, different vibe and margaritaville, and that was our lead-off song uh-huh oh wow, wasting away again in margaritaville. Rest in peace. It's probably out there right now wasting away in margaritaville yeah it's funny that we, like we're a family.
Well, I, I always have thought of our family as this family of people that are really into music. Yeah, musicians, you know you're. I feel like you've been a music nerd for most of your life and you've only recently been a lot more intentional about actually taking part in the creation. You know, you've always dabbled and mom's always talked about it. Mom's always. You know, she's kind of musician that pulls out her clarinet once in a year he's like, oh, I'm gonna play satin doll again.
0:13:44 - Scott
Here we go, here we go really that song goes, but I just remember that and I haven't caught those. I didn't know she was pulling it out. Yeah, yeah, I haven't. I haven't seen it since before you were born uh-huh.
0:14:02 - Ben
Well, no, I remember her pulling it out at some point. I might be conflating the memory to the point no, or inflating the memory to the point where it's she played less often than I I could be free.
0:14:16 - Scott
I could be forgetting too. Yeah, so you, uh, you got back from trying to burn down the state of Washington.
0:14:29 - Ben
Yes, yes, I did so why would anybody? I only got 100 acres in, but I why is so this podcast is called?
0:14:43 - Scott
That's a Good Question. Why is so this podcast is called? That's a Good Question. Yeah, like, why is burning burning? Intentional burning is going to save the planet.
0:14:53 - Ben
I have a couple of things Before we get into that. I have a friend that, uh, I told him like oh, I'm recording this podcast with my dad, so you know I'm, I'm, you know everyone's like oh, wow, oh, my wow, that's wow, I hmm I would never do that with my dad, but okay, and one friend like asked what's the hook?
and I'm like what's the hook? Like well, it's called, that's a good question. And uh, I mean it's a father and son talking for anywhere between like half an hour and 45 minutes. He's like as an avid podcast listener, I'm bored I'm bored yeah, what's our hook?
you know, it's like okay I was also like well, I don't really. I don't know if we really give a shit, whether or not you're bored like that's not I, I don't care but like I know what he's saying, you need a structure that, yeah, exactly yeah, the structure where people are going.
Oh, I like hearing that each time I'll come back right and I feel like you and I have the sort of relationship where it's like, well, we just, you know, asking each other those questions and then getting into the yeah, the details of whatever it is that we're talking about.
0:16:20 - Scott
Yeah, and the picking. The question is kind of organic. That's what I think makes it better, you know yeah it's not like you start out and go like here's a good question, though I might have one in the back of my head like comes together, seth I, I started listening to that.
0:16:40 - Ben
Uh, that, that podcast that you talked about, that what, what's the name of it? Like strike strike force five, where the the five late night hosts come together and make this podcast during the writer strike there?
0:16:56 - Scott
are four of them there was the john oliver added on.
0:16:59 - Ben
Yeah, okay, he's like, okay, we. He would add some important british energy because we don't like james cord, so we'll have him on instead. I was, I actually thought it might be James Corden. I was a little like damn it, but then I heard it was a Oliver and I, yeah, that was much more okay with that. But anyway, seth Meyers was describing this new podcast that he has and it's him and his brother and they interview people about trips and I'm just like Myers, you were like one of the most boring people in show business I have ever, ever listened to and watched. Like it's you the hook is you talk to people about trips that they go on?
0:17:48 - Scott
it's like well, the good thing is, when the hook seems underwhelming.
Those are the best podcasts right where you know okay yes I yeah, you're totally right like there's one called the beef and dairy network and his hook is just yeah, I know everything about beef and dairy in england, but it's a comedy podcast and most of the stuff he knows about beef and dairy they're just making up yeah, yeah, yeah, well, yeah, I guess in that case our hook is pretty good because it's just father and son asking each other questions and uh, it's also in this context of father son that actually have a pretty good relationship and we've already lost one listener.
0:18:38 - Ben
So potential listener. Oh well, sorry jenna.
0:18:44 - Scott
Yeah, maybe you'll come around um well, what did you think is the question? Oh yeah, the question. Anything else about strike force five? I? I thought it was pretty good, five way improv I actually uh, it was.
0:19:04 - Ben
It was, I think I only got like 10 minutes in and then I uh had I can't remember what it was, but there might not be the five people you want to see doing um, they didn't come out of the.
0:19:20 - Scott
They didn't say that they did pick a host for each one. They didn't say that in the first episode, but there was always a designated host. Yeah, okay, so they had some structure there.
0:19:32 - Ben
Yeah, first it was Kimmel. Yeah, no, no other, really no other thoughts about it. I mean, to be honest, those mainstream comedians I've kind of fallen out of touch with in a lot of ways Because it's like know they got they, they have an audience and a studio to make happy yeah it's not always in line. True entertainment, at least for me, anyway. Uh, burning down Washington, is that where we were?
0:20:08 - Scott
The question was why convince me? No, I won't use that word, I agree with Smokey. Convince me. Structured burning, no, what do you call?
it Prescribed, fire Prescribed fire going gonna save the planet. Well, great. Now for the part of the show that requires sponsorship. And, uh, this week's sponsor or every two weeks, um is Vectaport Sales, who uh, that's me and I sell, so bio bags on Amazoncom. So, as I said earlier, google bio bags, two gallon, and then you'll have your choice of 100 or 150 or 200 of these bags shipped to you from Amazon in a compostable blank box, a reverse tuck box, invented in the 1920s, I think, to ship stuff via the US mail. And everything that I ship can be composted, and you know. But send them off in your local garbage sorry, yard waste bin, because it needs industrial composting. Do it in your own, but you're going to be fishing out these little bits of green for a long time. So I'm sure I convinced you to go out and buy these. And now we'll get back to the podcast.
0:22:42 - Ben
How is prescribed fire going to save the planet? That's the question. Well, it won't Just like any one thing, will not? That being said, how will prescribed fire be a really, really important tool as the climate continues to change and as humans continue to kind of face this reckoning in their relationship with the rest of nature? It's historic. Well, this particular organization that I did this prescribed fire training with is based primarily in the western united states. Um, they're starting to reach up a little bit into canada, and the reason they're centered for the western united states is because the western united states has these really wet summers and these really hot dry, did I?
say, you said wet summer. I said oops.
Well, no, we're not in the tropics like, really I didn't notice the, the west western united states, western north america in general uh has very wet, cold winters and very hot, dry, dry summers, and historically there has been fire probably for the last tens of thousands of years, and the ecosystems and all the different species that are part of those ecosystems have more or less relied on particular fire regimes, different patterns of fire moving through landscapes at varying intensities, for the last tens of thousands of years, and so fire is actually this really really important piece of healthy ecosystems throughout Western North america and in the last hundred years or so, um smoky became a thing only you can prevent wildfires, that sort of thing.
And then that also so paired with these giant monopolistic timber companies that would clear-cut huge, huge acreage and then just replace it with these super dense stands of one type of tree, and they so that, combined with this cultural expectation that you, just, when fires happen, you put them out. So over the last hundred years, we've more or less created these landscapes that are now just ticking time bombs in this place, where fire is an inevitability pretty much anywhere you are.
0:25:33 - Scott
So could you say that Smokey the Bear is kind of an arsonist?
0:25:38 - Ben
Yeah, in the long run, uh, he doesn't know, he is he created more fire than he, he's, he's, um, in trying to suppress arson, he's actually paving the way for mega arson. Uh, and yeah, it's, that language gets a little funny because an arsonist is someone that uh intentionally starts fires. So, but anyway, maybe, maybe that was uh, his, his idea all along, and he was just trying to destroy the fabric of uh, western western north america.
0:26:19 - Scott
I think he was a.
0:26:20 - Ben
I think he was a bear. I think he was a bear, yeah, and I think there was a. There were some people in charge of the Forest Service that had particular values and motivations and priorities and didn't really understand the whole story and kind of weren't open to the actual nuance of what a healthy landscape actually is more than just didn't want to know, because money, um, I don't know, I don't know.
Point being, though, that prescribed fire is actually a tool that humans can apply to landscapes to kind of start working ourselves out of this mess so you can go into places that have become totally out of balance, but they're historical, just ecological processes, and use fire smart, fire good fire, to more or less restore an ecosystem so that it's more resilient to fire in the future and there won't be these huge million acre burns just sweeping through, just completely unstoppable.
0:27:46 - Scott
So I imagine a smart fire burns the undergrowth but not the trees for the most part.
0:27:53 - Ben
Yeah, it usually burns a few trees um, but most of the larger trees stick around, yeah, so the oak.
The oak savannas were created by that, you know yeah like in california for the moth part, yep, yep, and a lot of them were actually applied by humans. So oak savannas typically, depending on where you are in the world in, in western Washington, where I am, where rain falls a little bit higher, the oak savannas were maintained by humans that would introduce fire on, usually a three to five year cycle. So then the younger conifer saplings, like the firs and the pines, would die from those undergrowth fires, and the oaks that are much older, um, and have this really thick bark, they're pretty nicely fire adapted, um. So, yeah, humans would maintain those oak savannah habitats and there would be an incredible diversity of plants and mammals that would also, in addition to humans, that would also take advantage of the really unique habitat that is the oak savannah.
Yeah, so ecologically and just in terms of safety for society, fire is an important thing that we really need to be adopting more and more often uh it's hard, though, because because things are so out of whack now we're at a point in history where these prescribed fires are more likely to escape um than ever before. I was recently talking to someone that did a prescribed fire back in the 80s and there was no plan whatsoever. They got permission. They just said it was this logging company, and they just got permission from the dnr one day and they just got a crew out there and there was no plan and how they would ignite the landscape they just said all right, there are 20 of you, here's a torch, everyone now go do it.
And it was on this huge slope, huge steep slope, and they just started putting down flames and it it ended up escaping and creating kind of like grew to be twice its size. Um, and that was 40 years ago. Um, it's a very, very different, uh, it's a very, very different culture. Now there's months and months and months of planning and if the weather conditions are not perfect and you don't have your plan like if it's not a very sophisticated plan, and you don't have every single resource that you need that day and the weather conditions are not perfect, then the burn will be called off.
So there are all of these checks and balances to make sure that it goes as safely as possible, but it's also, you know, there's always going to be that inevitable risk. But it's like well, are we going to try doing prescribed fire? But it's like well, are we going to try doing prescribed fire or are we just going to wait for that inevitable moment when this ticking time bomb, which pretty much exists everywhere in the western united states, unless you're in, like, urban centers, are we just going to wait for that naturally caused fire to happen and it will just totally decimate everything, or are we going to try to start doing this much more frequently and a lot more acres in a much more controlled, responsible way? Yeah, so there's, yeah might be more than you bargained for in terms of the answer but, than you bargained for in terms of the answer.
0:32:08 - Scott
I had a question and it wasn't about Smokey the Bear, but I can't remember it?
0:32:20 - Ben
Did it have to do with fire? Yeah, yeah.
0:32:21 - Scott
Did it have to do with fire?
0:32:23 - Ben
Yeah, yeah, that burning the undergrowth. Have you ever had to put out a fire? Put out a fire, yeah, not like a campfire we ever, I think.
0:32:50 - Scott
I remember once as a kid like trying to light some grass at the edge of the field, nice, nice nice, we've all got it in us.
0:32:58 - Ben
We've all got the pyro in us.
0:33:00 - Scott
I'm telling you a field which really is what just wasn't savannah, that was, you know getting filled in. You know, they do dry burns by at the park next to you know where my parents lived.
0:33:21 - Ben
Oh, I didn't know that. Nope, yeah, where my parents lived. I didn't know that. No, yeah, yeah, it's interesting because the west, the rest of the country, is pretty, it's a lot more normalized and to do prescribed fire, both in the southeast united states and in the midwest yeah, right, it's, it's a the dodge nature center and they got this new piece of land which was the lily farm, which sits between where I grew up.
0:33:52 - Scott
In the high school I went to the. The lily family lived at the end of our street. That was like their deal for selling off their wetland for a california housing. It was like we'll give you a house at the bottom of the thing and, yeah, so, the nature center. You know what we could do here and it's all documented with you know. They describe how this used to be in Oak Savannah and and how it used to, uh, be maintained by the natives yeah, yeah, right, yeah right.
0:34:31 - Ben
I mean humans only evolved because, yep, our ancestors really all over the world, yep, you knew how to work with their ecosystems in a mutually beneficial way. The ecosystem is actually healthier because of the human presence. It was a hugely, hugely cooperative system. We had going yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:35:07 - Scott
I love twix you got halloween candy already got my halloween candy.
0:35:11 - Ben
Yep, I couldn't go trick-or-treating anymore when I was 14 was that a self-imposed limit or a? People are just not given a shit.
0:35:25 - Scott
Uh-huh, you look a little old, I'm 14,.
0:35:29 - Ben
All right, I'm still in high school. Come on, junior high.
0:35:39 - Scott
You need to grow up.
0:35:41 - Ben
In this economy.
0:35:44 - Scott
Yep.
0:35:48 - Ben
Well, yeah.
0:35:52 - Scott
That's cool. All right that was a good answer.
0:35:57 - Ben
Thanks, thanks, yep. What did you make for culinary club?
0:36:08 - Scott
Oh, now you got me saying anything. Mom made um coconut pie for dessert a coconut cream pie. There are other things pokey and ribs, pokey, pokey, yep.
0:36:29 - Ben
Nice.
0:36:30 - Scott
That was fun.
0:36:33 - Ben
We're done talking about doing a culinary club way out here. I told everyone about the concept Everyone comes with a dish and then kind of does their own little cooking show. That's kind of the structure of it. Right it? Oh, I have a dish, this is how you do these ribs. And everyone gets to, you know, embrace their inner julia child, and all my friends here are like, oh my god, you should do that, yeah, actually we're all into food too it is Asian, you're inspiring, you are inspiring yeah, I'm not one of the.
0:37:11 - Scott
I'm not one of the principal you are a participant. You are a participant, alright we got less than a minute here. How are we going to wrap this?
0:37:20 - Ben
up.
0:37:22 - Scott
I don't know, we could add more. If it doesn't work, okay, because, um, okay, I was just trying to upgrade to get the and it didn't go through okay um yeah, well, if we can't do that quickly?
0:37:38 - Ben
okay this has been brought to you by vectorectorport Sales. Check them out Amazoncom. Scott Johnston is your man Get your bio Two gallon.
0:37:48 - Scott
Two gallon bio bag Two gallon bio bag.
0:37:50 - Ben
Two gallon. Three gallon is too big. I don't know if they have anything less than one gallon, but yeah, or we might end up adding more too. We probably that's a good question.
0:38:01 - Scott
No, that's a good amount of time 45 minutes. I can't believe.
Transcribed by https://podium.page
