TAGQ (That's A Good Question)
TAGQ (That's A Good Question)
Slam Dance Surprise
What happens when you move to a new city and find yourself interrupted by a playful cat and a housemate during a podcast recording? Our latest episode of "That's a Good Question" brings you to Seattle, where we've set up a new base and are excited to share some personal updates. Moving south brought a mix of nostalgia and change, as we reminisce about past summers and Starbucks visits.
Ever been caught off guard at a concert or dance circle? We dive into stories of cultural surprises and the wild world of personal expression in social settings. From a friend's shocking slam dance encounter at a Ramones concert to a recent on-stage clash of Jane's Addiction, we explore the delicate dance of artistic freedom versus group dynamics. These tales of misunderstandings and confrontations reveal how discomfort can spark personal growth, challenging us—and hopefully you—to rethink societal norms and embrace the unexpected.
Join us on a whimsical nighttime journey, where music knows no boundaries. We found ourselves in the midst of a spontaneous jam session at Gas Works Park, featuring saxophones, flutes, and the rhythmic charm of a drum circle. Clapping along and shaking a maraca, we experienced the raw, unifying power of music. Everyone has a role in this universal language, and our night at the park is a testament to the joy of participating in creative expression. As the episode wraps up, we leave you with a sense of nostalgia and the thrill of new beginnings on the horizon.
it's been a while. I mean, I guess it hasn't been. Hasn't been a while for the listener because it's the same amount of time that it always is.
Scott:Maybe we we were a little slow in getting out podcasts during the summer.
Ben:Welcome to this very special edition of that's a Good Question. Special edition of that's a Good Question.
Scott:Special edition, because that's a good question.
Ben:Yeah, there was a question marked at the end of that one.
Scott:I know we'll find out by the end or we won't yeah, we won't.
Ben:It is a special episode because I move oh, wow. I'm recording this from a new location you moved south come again did you move south From? A new location. You moved south. Come again, Did you move south? I moved south Over the last, you know eight years of my life I've been moving north. More than eight years of my life I've been creeping my way north, generally speaking, and now I took it down south a little bit To where? This place 347 19th Avenue, Siena Washington.
Scott:Come on over and make yourself coffee. Yeah, who's going to show up one day? Who's the guy Mac DeMarco? Mac DeMarco is going to go. Oh yeah, I like this guy, knock knock.
Ben:Yeah, you remember that. I think it's at the end of his album, maybe it's just one song. In particular he tells all the listeners come on over, here's where I live. This is my address. I can't remember Somewhere in Canada, maybe British Columbia at the time. He doesn't live there anymore. I bet the people that live there now are having. I wonder if they're getting young people to show up at their house.
Scott:You live about three blocks away from where Peter and I spent the summer of 1995 hanging out.
Ben:And mom wasn't there because she was so busy.
Scott:Well, she was on call at the Swedish hospital, swedish hospital and that was one of the places.
Ben:I'm pointing directly towards the Swedish hospital. Yeah, and if you were to be in the tip of my pointer finger and I launched you out, you went through the various walls and through other people's walls, it really wouldn't take you very long. You probably only have to go about 300 feet before you wind up on the front step to the emergency room.
Scott:I think I would have rolled the baby stroller there. No man Use sidewalks and stuff instead. Of. Yeah, I remember a Starbucks on what's the major street that's just north of you, um, like a block or two and just on the other side pardon, cherry, yeah, there's a starbucks there and wheeled up peter to that starbucks and he's just like a year old and people are just oh, your baby's so beautiful that it looks like the gerber baby.
Ben:and he did, he looked like the gerber baby but it was only at that starbucks that you ever yes, that was the only place anybody ever complimented.
Scott:That's so interesting. It's the only memory I have. I wonder what it is.
Ben:Yeah well. Had you gotten him to the Starbucks without the aid of ballistics? Yeah, and you got him to the starbucks without the aid of ballistics? Yeah, and there's. Oh no, I made a mistake. I'm in a common room. Housemate just got back. We're interrupted. This is a very special, hey, keegan see, I told you it was very special. This is exactly why it's a special episode all at once interrupted, beautiful, perfect, well he may or may not be back, so we'll see how is life in Seattle?
Ben:life in Seattleattle. Life in seattle pretty pretty good. Yeah, it's uh less overwhelming than I thought it would be. I'm hanging out with people. Really, the biggest change is that I'm not surrounded by my best friends kind of 24-7, because I just got to that house and, yeah, seattle's a different pace. So the people living in the house are out and about most of the time and I'm just in the process of moving. I've actually been out and about most of the time and I'm just in the process of moving. I've actually been out and about most of the time too.
Scott:I've explored. What did you, what do you know? What you imagined would be hard to take, and she said, uh, hard to take. And she said it's less than what you imagined in your apprehension yeah, um, I think a lot of it was.
Ben:I think it's just hard to say. I just knew that it was such a big change that, um, I'm sorry, this cat is trying to interrupt and get a word.
Scott:Now it's a cat interrupting, yeah.
Ben:Yeah, just one second, okay, okay. Okay, you're not a cat. The cat is taken care of. You interrupted again. Oh, all right, care of. Won't be interrupted again. Oh, all right, maybe I didn't finish the job, oops.
Scott:You're your mother's son. You're not a cat lover.
Ben:No, I love cats, I do, but cats are not that dogs are all that consistent, but I find that cats tend to be even less consistent in terms of how easily loved they can be. But I think all animals just like people. If you get to know them well enough, they get to the point where you can have quite a bit of a factor, definitely do this.
Ben:Cats are more like humans than dogs I'd say humans are kind of in the middle. Oh, okay, yeah, I think I think usually I think people that are dog people really need more cat energy in their life. And no, pico, what are you doing? Are you gonna jump? Oh, my god, he is no. Don't interrupt the podcast. Wow, you need. He's never done this before. Wow hi pico, pico the cat, pico the cat I can't do the guy oh, but no, the guy oh. Seeing the guy.
Scott:Okay, pico, seeing the guy oh um, also, it's also the name for the thing beyond nano is Pico. Wow, it's macro, micro, no.
Ben:Mac.
Scott:Yeah.
Ben:I'll just ask Pico's owner. That would be uh intention. Hmm, I'll have to ask Pico's owner if that was the intention. No, I'm a cat person. I could use cat energy in my life. Yeah, did you think the city would be noisier.
Scott:You're in a quiet part, though, yeah.
Ben:I'm in a quiet part of the city. Is that what you said? Yeah, I mean, I guess by comparison to kind of the middle of Capitol Hill, it's a pretty quiet spot. But compared to other places that I was looking like further north, where I have a lot of friends that live Greenwood, green Lake area tends to be a little quieter, but this is still a pretty quiet spot. It is. Yeah, tends to be a little quieter, but this is still a pretty quiet spot. It is. Yeah, yeah, you're familiar with it. Uh, what was I expecting? I guess I had.
Ben:I had orientation for my master's program this past friday and, oh my, I guess I was expecting that to be more overwhelming than it was. But the moral of the story there was just welcome to grad school. This is different than undergrad and you're not going to be very good at it and that's okay. You have each other and you have us, us professors. We just ask that you advocate for yourselves. If something doesn't feel right, you know, let us know. So I guess I was expecting to be less comforted when I first showed up to orientation, but it ended up kind of being like oh wow, I think I really made the right move here. I think this change is going to be really good. They're not expecting me to have everything figured out. The whole point is that we're getting closer. We're there to help ourselves figure it out. You're a student perhaps I'm a student.
Ben:Yeah, and they talked about the difference between grad school and undergrad being the fact that undergrad is mostly focused on taking classes and excelling in that realm, and in grad school you're honing in on the work that is yours to do in the world, what you care about and how your skills and strengths and history kind of plugs into it all, and it's really a practice in actually applying that work. And because you haven't done much of it, at least in this particular field, or at least most people haven't Dad's school is kind of a playground, so to speak. Maybe that's too soft of a word to use, maybe a crucible you get to explore things.
Ben:Yeah, and you kind of have permission to do that and permission to kind of flop around. It's like independent study.
Scott:It's a sort of like an independent study.
Ben:Yeah, yeah.
Scott:Right, you just committed to like oh, I'm here to learn something, so I better figure out what I want to learn. Yeah, or work with your advisor to find that out yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.
Ben:So I feel like I have more permission to kind of share my uh uh, my really foggy, muddy ideas and interests more readily with my professors and things and have you have back.
Scott:You have an advisor? Yeah, yeah, I do. Did you uh take the bus?
Ben:yeah, yeah yeah, I don't know, I guess I was expecting things to just be, that's good. I was expecting maybe to miss wimpy more, I don't know. But now that I'm here, I'm, I know this is a going to be a really big, important growth, inducing change for me I think that happens when you, you land in a new place.
Scott:It's um, you know, being there is different than the map. The territory is different than the map.
Ben:Yeah right, once you're there, it becomes your embodied reality yeah, I think a big hard thing about it was that there was just so much uncertainty. I had no idea what life was going to be like, and I think that was what was overwhelming Not that the territory is actually overwhelming, but the map was so foggy and now it's like oh, I'm here.
Scott:Pico, it's like you're going to learn a whole bunch of new stuff. It's like, oh, that's uncomfortable. Yeah, do I have to learn all this new stuff right now?
Ben:Right.
Scott:Yeah.
Ben:In lots of different ways. Yeah, I went to where I was checking out a dance space on Monday sorry, sunday morning. You know, as you and the listeners have heard many times, I've been doing dance on Whidbey for a little while now and that community was really really sad to see me go and I'm really really sad to be not there anymore. And I went to a different space this last Sunday morning and I just kind of fell right back into my regular dance. It was different, the energy was different, of course, and people were a little bit less. I don't know. I guess over the top, I mean, it's literally called ecstatic dance. So you, you go there to try, and I, I don't know, I I don't think this. I think the word ecstasy kind of has a weird connotation these days, but you go there to more or less like access ecstasy and that looks different for everybody but it is.
Scott:It is correlated with the trance. Uh, yeah, it is correlated with the trance. Yeah, it is. It is an attempt to at least and freedom. Really, that's adjacent, let's put it that way.
Ben:Yeah, and I was dancing and I felt like the dance floor needed a little bit more energy and I'm like, oh, I think it's a good thing that I'm here. I think these people are really going to appreciate the fucking meteorite that's like now here.
Scott:Johnny, Johnny Dancer. Seed from Whidbey.
Ben:Yeah, yeah, there you go, and at some point the dance. So first a few different things happened, but long story short, it was not welcomed and it could have been not welcomed by anywhere between by at least two people, but it could have been three, it could have been two, it could have been four, it could have been five, it could have been 10. Could have been 15 people in the space. I don't know how many people were actually not okay with the level of rambunctiousness and fullness that I was bringing to the floor, but I met this guy's elbow a few times.
Ben:And the third time he said was intentional, after I confronted him about it after the dance. And yeah, at some point the facilitator told me that she was getting. She got a word. She said some people and I don't know if that means like one person let her know, or if two people let her know that they felt unsafe with me being there or at least how I was dancing. Okay, pico, you need to chill out. I'm going to do this. It's time for you. Stand up for yourself.
Scott:My son the unsafe dancer.
Ben:Yeah.
Scott:Irresponsible dancing, oh my.
Ben:I take up way too much space. I'm just an irresponsible. Just I'm just gonna crush all of your children. Don't get your children close to me if there's music involved. Um, but all this this. I've been dancing that wildly and more wildly on Whidbey for about a year and a half now. I've only gotten positive feedback. I'm really close with the person that facilitates that dance space. Brought this up with a friend, like what happened on Sunday with a friend this morning, and he said oh, we're going to have a lot to talk about because seattle's an interesting place where, yeah, I've been asked to make myself smaller a lot without people that have actually engaged with me, to actually get to know, like what my values are, whether or not I stand by my values or walk them in the world.
Scott:I could give you an interpretation that's probably more than 50% chance of being true, and it was just that one guy and he has his own issues over that.
Ben:There was at least one other person because when I talked to him and asked him, like are those elbows intentional? And just stand up for myself a little bit to say, like why didn't you use a hand? If it was intentional, why didn't you do something a little bit softer? You felt unsafe so you thought it would be okay to meet that with violence. It was it, um. Thought it would be okay to meet that with violence. It was it, um. But there was at least one other person because the facilitator and I asked him like were you the one that told the facilitator that you felt unsafe? And he's like oh no, I didn't say anything. I'm like okay, elbow me, and you don't even try to talk to like the teacher, you don't even tell me, tell on me to the teacher. But so it was at least two people, but continue.
Ben:I also got the feedback that afterwards because I apologize that the end circle, when we all circled up, but I said I should have read the vibe a little bit more to be able to read into how I could actually interact in this space I didn't get a really good. I came home to myself when I first got into the space, like started moving really slow, felt, got myself comfortable and then I, you know, embraced full expression without like really tuning in to be like oh, are people okay with this? I don't think it would have actually changed if I had tuned into the space first, because I think my reaction, my response would have been y'all need to get your energy up. You're not. I'm not sensing full, I'm not all trance here, um but, anyway, that's a little more context, a little more background.
Ben:What's your?
Scott:No, I think someone like Anytime you see something where you're embarrassed for that person's lack of conformance as they're exceeding the known boundaries of expression. Yeah, it's really more about me when I yeah, I could.
Ben:I kind of got that sense in my conversation afterwards with him. Yeah, because there was a lot, there were lots of concessions that I was willing to make to be like maybe I'm wrong, maybe the way I'm doing this needs to change, maybe I do need to make myself smaller, but I'm not, I'm not just going to accept that blindly. Whereas this guy was like you were in my space and I elbowed you so you would know to get out of my space, and it was like I wasn't even touching you until you touched me. That's like this is dance, this is ecstatic dance. What do you mean? Personal bubble, like yeah and so, and he wasn't willing to kind of hold the tension of like personal space is important. And what about the fact that maybe we're too overly obsessed with personal space and maybe there's some discomfort for you to move through here and for you to grow from?
Scott:I have. I have a yeah, related story in that this friend who lived across the hall in the dorm, he was kind of a crazy guy. He would bike in the middle of the winter on on thin tires and this is way before people like he was a big thing in the winter he was like the only one out there when the snow plows were going, but he, he, I think he got his tickets to see the Ramones at First Avenue and like four of us went I don't remember who.
Ben:The only thing I picture when I hear someone saying tickets to the ramones is this story from nathan porter's.
Ben:Sorry, I used to make this real name no, we can go this is the inception yeah, um, his mom told me the story while we were carpooling to sixth grade one day and said I went to a ramones concert and after I was the weirdest. I just had this weird slime all over my jacket. But anyway, that's just just to paint a picture for people about what it's like to attend a ramones concert. So crazy guy biking on thin tires on icy roads in the middle of winter in minnesota gets you tickets. The Ramones.
Scott:The famous first Avenue which is like Prince's home place. Only time I've ever been in first Avenue, actually, and we were like trying to, like you know, one of those tall tables on the side like hold it down and have a beer. And this guy's name is Paul. He did not appreciate the slam dancing going on right next to us and actually none of us had ever seen slam dancing. You know, this is 1980 or earlier, 80 probably, and and so, like you just finally got tired of it and, you know, hit someone over the head with the beer bottle when they bet, when they, when they slam, danced into them, and later it's okay, like well, I don't think you're supposed to do that in slamming oh my god, uh, it's not smash, damn yeah, oh god, well, he had no context, I mean all we knew was the music on a phil specter produced album of the remote right yeah, yeah, you had never actually been there for the live creation of it.
Ben:Yeah, right, well, that sounds like. Oh god, I'm trying, I'm trying to think of any example, but it's kind of like that art, like it reminds me of um, uh, sack telephone's character from hangover, when they're just doing thing and like, or like maybe even taught. Is it tommy wiseau? Is that, is that his name? From the room and he just has these.
Ben:His reactions to, just like things happening in front of him is. It's like, you know, his friend is telling him this horrible, tragic story about this woman suffering from sexual abuse. And then he's like, ah, what a story mark. Or zagal fanaticus, characters like everyone's you know, get like wrestling or something and he just like pulls out a gun or something and starts shooting like this is the energy right. Like dude, that's whoa. He's like what I don't get. What's wrong with this right now? Like what are you talking? Like ah.
Scott:So three good examples for need a word for that Like when you get mad mad at a slam dancer because you don't understand what slam dancing is, or you get mad at the overly ecstatic dancer.
Ben:Yeah, exactly, and I've heard of it happening in various dance spaces with different styles.
Scott:Did you hear about the one where Jane jane's addiction was? I mean, this happened like last week, the two principals um got into a fight on stage and because the singer, they cut off the singer oh they, let you literally shortened the song because they didn't want him going into some thing he does at that part of the song.
Ben:Oh, like something political or whatever, who knows.
Scott:I'm not sure what the context is, just know that they just wanted to.
Ben:Yeah, they just cut him off.
Scott:Yeah, I won't say their names, but they're the obvious two people. It'd be like Keith Richards, you know, pranking Mick Jagger and Mick Jagger getting angry yeah right and having a fistfight on stage, like oh, that's funny. How long have they been together? Like oh, that's funny.
Ben:What, how long?
Scott:have they been together. The Jane's Addiction that was definitely late 80s, early 90s, 30 years.
Ben:I feel like those bands I don't know, there's something about that just like unfiltered, just like yeah, I'm pissed off at you, I'm going to tackle you on stage get it out, get it out.
Scott:You know, let it ventilate like get those feelings out I had some stage time on saturday, got to play a couple songs on bass at the at the jam in San Francisco. But the most notable thing from this thing it was kind of fun is like the organizer, john Sweets his name gets up there and they go and he's been practicing his singing so he goes. So you guys know what today is, and they go, he goes, you guys. So you guys know what today is, and they go, he goes. You know, do you remember the 21st day of September? And so they like launched into this Motown song this other guy just got everybody in the place up dancing.
Scott:Which was kind of a surprise, because I've never seen anyone dance there.
Ben:How did he do that? Was it through the music or he went around?
Scott:He just walked across. There's only 20 people in this room, but his energy I'm inspired.
Ben:I mean, there's only 20 people in this room. Yeah, okay, but his energy Walked across. Oh, I'm inspired. I want to do it.
Scott:Yeah, and everybody did.
Ben:Oh, I love it.
Scott:It's a perfect song for it, definitely.
Ben:Yeah.
Scott:Good dancing song.
Ben:Yeah, that's kind of like the go-to if you ever need to get people going, especially in the middle of september. It's people are like oh you're right, oh my god, oh my god, yeah, oh wow, this is amazing, oh yeah, it's uh, it's like, uh, refined sugar, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can't do it for very long, like not over at the end of that dance where it's like you don't really want to eat two Snickers bars.
Ben:You know it's like, yeah, you're not going to be feeling too great after the first, but yeah, yeah, I don't know. Some people have trained to be able to eat a dozen Snickers bars, whereas some people have been able to have been trained to dance to a dozen six-minute Motown songs. Ymca I made it to stage yesterday.
Scott:Yeah.
Ben:A friend who actually just moved to Whidbey from Seattle and kind of traded places has been sending me weekly missions to to do, because they're just the kind of person that is really good at thinking of things to do. She's just always just meeting people and finding the cool spots. And she told me to go to gas works park on a Monday night. She said it was a bonus to my weekly mission. It was like she had the weekly mission and like you know, the whole mission impossible font and everything. And then at the end it said bonus return to gas works park on a Monday night for something special Without telling you what it was.
Ben:I had no idea what it was, no idea what she was talking about, and I went and I was just wandering around.
Scott:Hold it. This is where we need a commercial, because that's like a good cliffhanger, oh yeah.
Ben:I'm just wandering around in the dark at Gasworks.
Scott:Park, yeah, so who's supporting us this week? You can make it a quick one.
Ben:Who's supporting?
Scott:us this week?
Ben:Yeah, the University of Washington. Oh, this might get me into some hot water actually. No, never mind, we won't go.
Scott:We're supporting them, we're supporting them. You doubt that?
Ben:We're supporting the University of Washington.
Scott:Known as the whatever the White Furred Dogs.
Ben:White Furred. The White Furred Dogs. Oh, not like the White Furred Dogs, as in like Whitford England, welcome to Whitford England. No, the dogs with white fur, they're not only white.
Scott:Okay, huskies, though they have some, the huskies. What else do they know, of course, other than? Sitting on a waterway that connects an inland lake to the. Sound.
Ben:I don't know. They're just a big university with lots of research.
Scott:You sound enthusiastic. I thought you were promoting them.
Ben:No, they were. Most of their OG money that helped get them started came from timber moguls back in the day. I don't know if Weyerhaeuser. I'm sure he was affiliated with them somehow.
Scott:The guy who got them.
Ben:I think the forestry program ended up being a Weyerhaeuser pipeline for a long time. So this episode is brought to you by Weyerhaeuser Timber Because probably a big like. Without're that warehouse or timber, I probably wouldn't be in Seattle right now, probably wouldn't be going to UW.
Scott:Without the timber warehouse or wouldn't be there either, cause warehouse is from Wisconsin.
Ben:From.
Scott:Wisconsin. We talked about this.
Ben:Down in St Paul, minneapolis, and then move to Everett Washington. Well, they and then moved to Everett Washington.
Scott:Well, they built a railroad and the government gave all the land along the railroad, including all the forests, to James J Hill.
Ben:And then James J Hill said to his buddy hey you can make money off of this, like $5 an acre or something.
Scott:A lot of forest, it went through yeah, yeah I guess that's a good question. How deep off the rail did the railroad own? Like your great-great-grandfather came in on that rail and um he created a sod house. Created a sod house on the edge of the rail, but how far off and was he? Was it railroad land or was he homesteading? I don't know. I don't know.
Ben:That's a good question. I'll have to read about it.
Scott:Yeah, okay. Well, that reminds me.
Ben:That's good. That's a good chapter in the book I have called Northwestlands, Northwest Peoples Anyway.
Scott:Anyways, back to the gasworks and fire.
Ben:Back to it. Thanks UW. Thanks Weyerhaeuser. Ha ha, I'm wandering around gasworks. It's late, it's dark and there's like three dudes just kind of playing jazz music One with a saxophone, one with a flute, one with a clarinet. I'm like is this a surprise? Am I supposed?
Ben:to go and talk to these people and I kept wondering. And then I'm like, oh, I'm watching, I'm looking at the skyline, and then, as I keep walking, I hear some like djembe music, I hear some like afro cuban stuff. And I'm like, oh, and I keep walking and there's this circle of people like softly illuminated by a fire in the middle, and it was a drum circle. I recognized one person from the dance scene that I had gone to a couple of workshops in bellingham and I joined in and just started clapping. I had no, no, I mean, you know, I was not a drummer and it was just like I want to be part of it. And then someone handed me a maraca and then I just stumbled but I thought it was, it was a good time.
Scott:Everybody's a drummer. I made it and they were. That's the good time. Everybody's a drummer. I made it and they were. That's the first thing you are as a musician.
Ben:I just had to we're a singer, I say first, we're singers. Well, mel actually made me first for drummers. I don't know. But
