TAGQ (That's A Good Question)
TAGQ (That's A Good Question)
Corporate Rock
Music and creativity aren't just for professionals, but we've been conditioned to "cringe" at amateur performances due to corporate entertainment propaganda. This father-son conversation explores how buried cultural programming restricts our authentic expression and the healing process of breaking free from these limitations.
• Unexpected technology moments create bridges between generations, from Photo Booth memories to accidental Zoom close-ups
• Photo Booth sessions helped transform siblings from "enemies to best friends" through shared creative expression
• SNL's 50th anniversary special revealed the humanity of aging musical legends struggling to warm up their voices
• Cultural programming teaches us to repress physical responses to music, limiting authentic expression
• Breaking free from "professional-only" creative mindset requires valuing personal joy over others' judgment
• Childhood musical experiences were shaped by corporate messaging that designated creativity as exclusively for professionals
• Finding creative voice later in life involves recognizing and rejecting artificial constraints
• Physical feedback is essential for skill development, whether in drumming or other creative pursuits
I just tried to tilt back my camera so that I could see you better.
Ben:Did it work.
Scott:No, it didn't change the angle on you at all oh, I, I didn't move.
Ben:Yeah, I've been driving with people before and I forget to put my head back while they're turning out into traffic.
Scott:That's a. Thing.
Ben:Smack my forehead, and then they push me back in my headrest.
Scott:Really, this must be one of your jiu-jitsu partners, someone who feels like smacking you around.
Ben:No, no, let's just say we're not in the vicinity anymore.
Scott:Okay, we could say that we could say that you just did a riddle, which is what I always get accused of doing Saying things in riddles, what?
Ben:I always get accused of doing Saying things in riddles, say something in a riddle.
Scott:Oh Well, oh boy.
Ben:What was it that I said? Riddles?
Scott:don't come on demand. No, I know what was it that I said Riddles, don't come on demand. No, I know what was it that I said Well, you're not in that vicinity anymore. It's like.
Ben:I don't know what that meant at all.
Scott:It's like, okay, that means something to you. But it's like, am I going to waste our listeners' time? I have You're up.
Ben:He, just like you, would be hard-pressed to manually change the angle of my cranium. Okay, he would be too.
Scott:Okay, no, I'm sure the listener understands what you're saying. I don't, but, but that's alright.
Ben:I'm not within arm's reach for to hit my head and oh, I get it now.
Scott:That was the context, it might not have made any sense that's exactly how. I would have said the same thing, I would have made that same point and everyone would go. What do you?
Ben:mean there you go. We speak in riddles.
Scott:Or it's Father like son. It's like a comedy writer's room where nobody laughs because they go what they don't get it yeah.
Ben:I think I changed my camera so that it'll be a little bit better for you now.
Scott:I think I did you know, the main result of the SNL 50th anniversary show was David Letterman slaughtered his sheep. Snl 50th anniversary show was David Letterman slaughtered his sheep. Oh no, I missed that part. Okay, that's another joke you've got to explain, but I forgot it.
Ben:I was hoping to ask you but continue. Well, I'll ask you that later you but continue.
Scott:Well, I'll ask you that later. Uh, 80 year olds should have as much time as possible to warm up their voice voice see, and my voice didn't work there. Uh, you're 80, it's like, warm those voices up. I know you guys have been singing your whole life, but oh, we've got to warm it up.
Ben:Yeah, I mean, the more proficient I get in movement, the more and more it seems like I need to warm up, and I don't know if that's because I'm better tuned into my body nowadays, or if it's because I'm getting older, or because the stronger and more flexible I get, my body's just needs more lubricating. So I imagine it's the same for a singer. I know it is.
Scott:I mean the Pauls maybe, are a little sheltered from that reality. The Pauls, the Pauls, yeah, lawrence, the friends, the Pauls they both had like oh yeah, it's like you're singing, like you just woke up in the morning.
Ben:Paul Simon, Paul McCartney, Paul Rudd, Paul. Hi, I'm Paul.
Scott:Yeah, Paul Rudd closed the whole show by singing Yesterday acapella. That happened.
Ben:And his voice cracked.
Scott:No, it wasn't him.
Ben:Yeah, it wasn't him because his voice had gone out didn't did I just zoom in yeah, you did.
Scott:It's sorry.
Ben:It's kind of scary when that happens, when you were looking away, and then, and then I saw in my little thumbnail of the camera oh, my face just got bigger. It was scary for me and it was just this little thing at the top of my screen. I'm like, oh gosh, I wonder how that should be.
Scott:I had a feeling of like, why is this person suddenly, you know, twice as cool as me?
Ben:It's like, oh, it's like the bit in comedic scenes where you look one direction and then that person you were looking at as close as they were before. Yeah, I don't know why my computer does that it's, it's just old I see it just kind of glitches like that. And now for the rest of the meeting. This is where I'm going to be. It does it both on Google Meet and on Zoom it's hard to think.
Scott:It's hard to think that's a hardware feature. I imagine it's some sort of software thing within my but I've never, it's happened to you before, but I've never been zoomed by Zoom without my knowledge before.
Ben:Does Photo Booth? Let you zoom in.
Scott:Probably.
Ben:I guess I've never even thought you're not in photo booth all the time, right where you sit remember. I probably spent collectively like four and a half hours sitting right where you're sitting so I'm gonna go look back.
Scott:I'm gonna go look back and find all those yeah, yeah, do it, I hope. I have a record of the photo booth. I might have lost it.
Ben:I think a lot of them were probably. I imagine you were. Well, I guess that is something that you could overlook. To upload all the photo booth into iPhoto.
Scott:I have all the photos from the iMac, but I don't know if I got the photo booth. Iphoto I have all the photos from the iMac, but I don't know if I got the photo booth.
Ben:Yeah, if you imported them.
Scott:Yeah, why was photo booth? That would be. Why was what? How did you feel about photo booth when, all of a sudden, you had this toy in front of you?
Ben:Well, I remember we had got that really sleek looking mac. Yeah, the one that's pop, you know just a screen that's on the stand almost looked like a flat screen tv it was like when computers really started to look a lot more like they do today yeah uh, and I remember the feeling being associated with much quicker and robust online gameplay.
Ben:And then I also remember the photo booth, the big red button that you would click and it would have just a really satisfying. As soon as you clicked it yeah, yeah, I did the feeling was one of just like well then you'd go. I remember it vividly. You'd go, wow, well then you'd go.
Scott:I remember it vividly. You'd go look at the picture and then you'd go like, or would it be like you'd laugh or you'd what? I mean why does anyone use?
Ben:a photo booth. Why does anyone have fun with a photo booth?
Scott:It's to goof around In real time.
Ben:You know it's to goof around yeah.
Scott:Were you making faces.
Ben:Yes, yeah, yeah. I would love that because mom sometimes does that where, for whatever reason, for a week straight she'll get on that kick of just going through old photos and she'll blast the family group chat with all the gems she finds. That'd be great. It'd be great to see, because we were always doing something, something wild. Oh no, I'm so sorry, I should have turned this off. What?
Scott:Something happened.
Ben:Where's my telephone?
Scott:Mine too.
Ben:Come through. Where are we?
Scott:Is it at?
Ben:No, it wasn't, Yours went, went off, mine did at the same time.
Scott:While no, I got, I got flipped. Probably never meet zoom. Whatever, this operating system from apple switches you over to the phone and it's like now. The mac is also a phone first, just like the iphone's, like phone overall that was zoom too yeah, flip me out of zoom to say here's a phone call coming in for you. Oh, I don't know, whatever apple gives me I'm, I'm just not going to question it.
Ben:I remember some of the best photo booth experiences. Yeah, if we still have those, that would be pretty special. Cool. Yeah, I feel like those were some of the most wild times in the Johnston household. I have to say that's when Peter and I's relationship really started to transition. I feel like between just enemies to best friends. We're in there too, so you get a weird confluence of like boys, just like at each other's throats while also making each other laugh a lot because you found an outlet for sharing expression.
Scott:yeah, it was kind of just fun and not full of critique like how are you going to get into harvard with this right?
Ben:yeah, we were always at each other's thoughts about getting into harvard no, I just not you guys, because that's the life in low stakes. Yeah, yeah, I bet. I bet that had to do with it, and. But I mean, it was also like when you know peter's friends would be over and they'd be using the camera feature or whatever, and he started using live chats too at some point.
Scott:Um, I will check that right away and Good, yeah, yeah, get back to me.
Ben:Yeah, yes, this podcast is called. What about Paul's? Why did you bring up Paul again?
Scott:Paul. Yeah, lorne Michaels just calls him. Oh, paul, you know he never specifies which Paul he's talking about, but paul will be there paul will be there.
Ben:Paul will be there. So what is it with this? Uh duh, why did 80 year olds also?
Scott:steve martin is 79 years old well, they, they just started singing their songs and the kind of voice broke a little bit. In ways, their voice is always broken, you know. So it's still. That was their signature, but you know, pretty much they only use it selectively, not like you know, just like trying to climb. They're trying to get the instrument warmed up and you can see that, that's all it was very human. It was very live and it was good TV.
Ben:You're like oh my god here's a guy.
Scott:Here's a guy who will never be removed from the pantheon of musicians having a hard time getting a song started. It's like oh.
Ben:Wow, he really is a person, yep, yep. So do you know anything about why David Letterman and Sheep are connected?
Scott:No, I do not, I do not know this meme.
Ben:Okay.
Scott:I was thinking as I've seen the joke and made yeah, okay what. I've seen people make the joke and I it's like, okay, why does he have a farm?
Ben:yeah, that's probably what it is. My brain first goes to uh john stewart when he quote unquote retired. And the first thing he did was move to a ranch. Husbandry, I don't know what everyone does. You know when you strike it rich. It's kind of a dream. It's so interesting you don't have to be rich to live at a ranch, you just go be a rancher Like why do you wait? From experience I've owned various farms.
Scott:Well, he owns that.
Ben:Don't have much money. Yes, yes, understood, to own it. It's its own something uh-huh, uh-huh well as I was watching. I watched a little bit of the uh, saturday night, the super bowl, the kind of the super bowl of comedy. Yeah, uh, didn't you know? Just to just to just to tune in, just say I did it.
Ben:I felt like I was at grandpa harvey's house because this morning I was like oh, that's right, that happened, and so I uh turned on my computer and I put it on, put it on the uh, the bar in the kitchen, and while I cooked breakfast I watched a little bit. Saturday Night Live had some cartoons, some commercials were on as I cooked my bacon, toasted my bread, cooked my eggs.
Scott:Yeah.
Ben:Really felt like I was at a 1960s breakfast.
Scott:Did you notice that they cut their mics when they said live from New York at Saturday night? No, you didn't even notice. They said it. Sabrina Carpenter and Paul Simon finished their song saying and live from New York at Saturday night, and you couldn't hear it.
Ben:And they cut it Wow.
Scott:Or it was a live mistake, you know, yeah, right.
Ben:Amen, or it was a live mistake you know, yeah, right Amen. It's hard to.
Scott:Or someone said well, we're not going to say it because it's not Saturday night, so we have to. Spencer said we can't say it's Saturday night, because it's hard to say.
Ben:What was it?
Scott:This is actually Sunday.
Ben:Was it Sunday afternoon? When was it?
Scott:Yeah, sunday night.
Ben:Was it Sunday afternoon? When was it?
Scott:Sunday night. It aired earlier there were jokes about that, so Tom Hanks can get his beauty rest. Doesn't like staying up that late anymore, yeah.
Ben:While I was watching it um that, you know more about pop culture than I do, and bad pop culture, yeah yeah, yeah, perhaps, but I feel like, compared to a lot of, uh, son, father dynamics, even even the younger generation, I feel like you tend to understand more. I didn't know that was sabrina carpenter until, like, it took me, it took me a minute and it's like, oh, now I'm just, I'm just learning about this person.
Scott:Oh, I didn't know until she was a host on saturday night live earlier in the season. Yeah, I mean, and we saw her name on him. No, no, she's not the one who's the one who blew up this year?
Ben:um, uh, she complained about it um, not chapel room, it is chapel room.
Scott:Okay, well, maybe I did she complained about the lack of artist support from her record label, which is island in in the grammys, which is like, oh, okay, interesting it was the first time someone made a grammy speech and wasn't thinking Island Records is a little tight with their money. Maybe she had to lay off some people you know that's good.
Ben:I appreciate the honesty you know. Thank you to my parents, thank you to all my friends, thank you to my songwriters. Screw the production company. Thanks to everybody else.
Scott:Yeah, but it was actually from a very privileged position to be making such criticism. I mean, she just climbed to the top of the music industry.
Ben:Right, well, sure, production companies aren't. I mean, I don't know the whole story.
Scott:We'll see whether she Kaepernick'd her career or not that's what I mean.
Ben:I don't even know. I know who Kaepernick is, but did he get fired, or like?
Scott:no, he's the one who took a knee right.
Ben:Did he get fired for that?
Scott:yeah, he never got a job. And as a quarterback again? Oh, just because he get fired for that. Yeah, he never got a job as a quarterback again.
Ben:Oh, just because he was too. Oh, that's how it happened. I thought he just started sucking again and he retired early.
Scott:Nope, he just got fired for taking a knee to.
Ben:Yeah.
Scott:Or he just never got rehired.
Ben:It was an act of protest. Yeah, I mean, it went on for a while, yeah and that was enough. They didn't like that but the whole story, it's a business you can't be in these corporate shows.
Scott:Protesters like that wouldn't can't have the Oscars in these corporate shows. Protesters like that wouldn't be allowed in the Oscars. They wouldn't be allowed in the. You know, Saturday Night Live 50th anniversary. Not, you know, it's not going to happen. No, no True, Though it did happen during the Super Bowl right but that means people. It goes over most people's heads yeah, and I'm sure that guy got tackled and escorted out very quickly. Which man he unfurled the Palestinian flag during Kendrick Lamar's halftime show, or a pro-Palestinian?
Ben:I never heard about that. Kept it from me.
Scott:Wow, they, whoever they are, they kept it from you. Kept it. No, they are. They kept it from you. No, um, that just wasn't going to make money for somebody, so they didn't work on pushing it to you.
Ben:Um, yeah, I don't do that much dating when it comes to those things. A question answer think back to, uh, what I was thinking. Question Answer. Think back to your time when you were at photo booth age.
Scott:Yeah.
Ben:Do you remember whether or not your embodied reaction to when you would listen to music Was it different?
Scott:I was having this conversation yesterday morning with some well it was, it was a smaller world, right. I had like a, a camera with a 15 millimeter film cassettes yeah. I had the budget to take, yeah.
Ben:I had an iPod that could store like 800 songs, but I only ever put like 45.
Scott:Yeah, well, the camera did not have any music features in it.
Ben:That's one thing that was different. The only my iPod didn't have any camera features. Wow, imagine that Maybe we really aren't that different after all.
Scott:That's kind of out the window at this point and so the music just came from a stereo set in our living room right which had fm radio. And we had records, a few records. And then we started accumulating records, especially a big dose of rock records given to us by our neighbor who matured out of I think she filtered her collection. We got all the things she thought were uncool, like the monkeys and that novelty British things like the Herman Hermits and Paul Revere and the Raiders. But how did I feel about listening to that music? What was I feeling in my body? Was that the question?
Ben:Yeah, kind of.
Scott:Um, oh I. I love chord changes that are done on the beat did you intellectualize that when you were 13?
Scott:I've never intellectualized it, it's just a primal thing. I don't want to question it, I just know I got exposed to enough of it. Yeah, and it was probably church and organ music Did it to me first, you know, and it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, so church was all in the business of being a, you know, competition for Disney, let's put it that way and and like giving you a view of like here's something, amazing wonderful show, come and see us and think. All these big emotions and meaning, you know, all of which are unverifiable.
Ben:What this meaning is unverifiable.
Scott:I said I liked it. I didn't say what the feeling is.
Ben:The feeling is and how, I guess. Another question is like how does it compare to when you listen to music nowadays? You notice any difference in when you were a kid versus now.
Scott:I feel emotion, like in my chest listening to music, you know, and probably greatly repressed because they feel all that without ever being in a place where you can move, like you can't even stomp your foot in church. You know you can't. But I felt, I felt it like a yeah, yeah, I felt like a person in a wheelchair, that's what you think about it. It's like don't break out dancing, don't you know?
Ben:do you remember wanting to?
Scott:didn't seem like a reality to me yeah and whenever it came, it was always forced too quickly, like, okay, dance now. It's like, huh, get up on the stage, put on women's clothes and dance go. It's like, ah, okay, that's like you're making me jump over a couple layers of of, uh, normalization things here, yeah, uh. It's like no, we just you know, because you know where we grew up in. It's just like all that singing and dancing that's restricted for the highly paid professionals in New York and LA, do not think?
Ben:of, or, at the very least, if you want to do it, you've got to go stand up on stage or go to your room and close the door.
Scott:Yeah, yeah, because and I blame this on corporate propaganda. I mean, I think everybody was convinced during the 20th century. How? Because of the advent of? Have we covered this already in this podcast? I think so. The advent of ways to record and sell, you know, entertainment gave the motivation for business interests to like put out the propaganda that here's the only people you should be watching, singing and dancing yes, yeah and therefore anybody else who's doing it outside. Of you know new york or la's.
Scott:You know economic approval, um yeah you should laugh at them because you know they're not as good as the professionals or at least cringe you should cringe kind of turn the other way, don't, don't, encourage them and and.
Scott:That cringe is buried so deep in my brain. It's been really, really a lot of work to get over yeah, yeah right. I was like how can I become a musician at this age? You know, if I pay attention to the cringe factor, which is you know I'm supposed to uh, or if I worry about everyone else's cringe factors.
Ben:You'll only become a musician in that if you keep cringing and do it out of fear. But if you yeah, I think it's a healing process. If you don't want to do it out of fear, you know, notice the cringe and realize that this is bullshit.
Scott:It's also sort of not caring um. That's kind of being more egocentric in a way. It's like I don't care what you think you know about you know I mean is that?
Ben:me being a drummer is that eccentric or is that just like valuing? I mean, you know, egocentric makes it sound like it's selfish, but you know it's sounds like it's a form of kind of helping, helping this law, that sort of better word that avoids the selfish aspect, not selfish I mean it is selfish, but not in a bad way. You know, it's the opposite of people pleasing. Yeah, like I don't really care that this makes man, I am bringing me joy.
Scott:And I needed that, especially on drums to work through to where I got, and Peter was highly positive reaction to the clip he saw on Saturday.
Ben:I was gonna say I was uh looked really good yeah, well that's that's it.
Scott:It's like and I saw this thing earlier where this week dave grohl's commenting on will ferrell playing cowbell and he was tight. Will Ferrell was tight on that cowbell while he was doing all the comedy bits, right he? Had a metronome in his head that was, you know, running at full speed and you know hitting it perfect, and it's like, yeah, it does take some feedback from people who know more than you to get to that point.
Ben:Yes, skill development yeah.
Scott:Yep.
Ben:So Dave Grohl was.
Scott:It did for me. Daveave girl only quit lessons. But I'm sure, yeah, he, I, I, my drum teacher is more like a physical therapist, helping me re-establish things I've lost. You know, like, did you notice that your left hand and your right foot are not going together? It's like, oh, oh, yeah, I can hear it now. You know, it's like, and that was a bad example, it's usually right hand, right foot, but um right hand, right foot, but um, yeah, we know what you meant, yeah, how's it going in the great northern woods?
Ben:oh, the woods that's no all these woods are? They cut them all down a long time ago. Oh they're still not really here anymore.
Scott:There's still trees in Seattle, aren't there?
Ben:I mean, there are just as many trees where you are, probably more trees where you are. Yeah, there are still trees in Seattle, this is true. I would be interested to hear about that Per unit area which has more trees the city proper of Seattle or San Francisco proper? That would be an interesting statistic. I could apply my GIS skills and probably find out that information. I'm not going to waste my time doing that.
Scott:You could have a competition with your brother. Why don't you prove which has more trees? I want you guys to answer this question.
Ben:You can say Seattle and Adam, all I have is my list of things to do.
Scott:The thing about San Francisco is there's a neighborhood where trees are not really prized because there's so much fog in the summer that you don't really need shade. The sunset is, you know yeah. Yeah, where is there's no neighborhood like the sunset in Seattle?
Ben:Everywhere you want to prioritize sun.
Scott:Yeah, if you even have a tree, they pollard it. You know what that is? Yes, weird.
Ben:Explain, explain to the listener what pollarding is.
Scott:Is that what? How do you? I thought it was like you have a pole that's a yard long and you put print pinchers up into the tree and basically you give the tree a trim, cut back all the branches so that it's like cut back all the branches so that it's like when you go down those fancy boulevards and you see those trees that look like they have the eight tentacles and fists at the end of their tentacles.
Ben:Yes, the tree has been pollarded yeah yeah, and then during the growing season, a lot of the time the twigs will grow out of it.
Scott:Yeah yeah, and if you own property in the sunset district and you had a tree in front, you would probably like oh, oh, yeah, let's keep full like Pollard I don't mean Pollard- Pollard, pollard, pollard. Is that somebody's name, pollard?
Ben:Maybe that's Definitely somebody's name. Okay, it's probably someone's first name. Some weird couple probably decided to name their child Pollard, probably. Probably a family name, probably the first name that's been passed down through generations. Oh boy, who's the sponsor?
Scott:Oh, okay, good, you're thinking of work.
Ben:No, oh no, oh no. You're thinking of work. Oh no, oh no, oh no. Ah, the Walkman. Do you have a Walkman?
Scott:Walkman Sony Walkman. Are you talking about Tony's group?
Ben:Talking about coming in and say what.
Scott:Is it W-A-L-K-Man or W-O-K-Man? W-a-l-k man or W-O-K man?
Ben:W-A-L-K man. Is there such thing as a W-O-K?
Scott:man, I don't know. I never had a Walkman, but I had, you know, a competitor. I didn't, but that was probably eight years after the first Sony Walkman came out, or you could put it, you had a little Vizio MP3 player, whereas all the other kids had the iPod Nano. Yeah, it was actually by the time I got the handheld device, the other one had been around and it was kind of already over I guess progress was much slower.
Scott:In that time it's like it seemed like the sony walkman was the end of the end of the line. Like this is as good as music technology is going to get you. You're going to carry a cassette around. And maybe they'll put a radio in there.
Scott:So I think, that's mine, had a radio too. That's nice, yeah, cool. And we had these headphones that were like, constructed like the kind you get for free in an airport or airplane, not much better than that. They didn't go in your ears, nobody was forcing things into your ears, it just was over your ears.
Ben:Why would you do that, oh my God. Well, it sounds to me like this episode is brought to you by all those.
Scott:Tony Walkman. Oh yeah, it was. Oh okay, let's guess that makes sense. So I think it was JBL.
Ben:You had a JBL moment.
Scott:Or it began with a J, it might have been JBC. Here we go, we can sponsor JBL. Since we're already here, look, we've.
Ben:Look, look, look, listener. Look with your ears, look with your ears. You know what it is Each holding up our black JBL speakers. It used to be called a JBL pill, I think, or maybe it was some other, I don't know.
Scott:Just in my life it's like everyone's tried to make a Bluetooth speaker and this is the only one people keep using, keep having around. Every other Bluetooth speaker is out of your life quickly. So thanks, jbl. Also, you probably are the sound system in a car or two.
Ben:I don't know.
Scott:I don't know. We should have someone write. We should have someone write these sponsors. I guess if we got money for them we could have someone write them oops, damn it, god.
Ben:We almost got through the whole episode without mentioning AI. Damn it. Yeah, how are things going in the great pacific northwest? We're so powerful. Well yeah, how are things going in the Great Pacific?
Scott:Northwest. I'm so tired. Well Snow, there's snow.
Ben:Snow happened. It's been extraordinarily dry the last three or four weeks, yeah, but finally it rained a little bit the last couple days, yeah, but finally it rained a little bit the last couple of days, yeah, not, you know, school, I'm, I'm, I'm. My body is contorting from.
Scott:Island life further into city life, and it's it's a painful transforming into a turtle ghost.
Ben:Stay tuned, I am transforming into a turtle.
Scott:There's actually a jujitsu position called turtle.
Ben:And I find myself in that often.
Scott:That's like child pose.
Ben:Yeah, pretty much yeah. It means you're getting your ass kicked.
Scott:That's how things are going Okay. Well, good to know. Yeah, I'm playing drums in a rock and roll band in San Francisco, so you can become a turtle.
