TAGQ (That's A Good Question)
TAGQ (That's A Good Question)
Forest Swinging
Ben and Scott explore profound life lessons through everyday experiences, from psychedelic insights at the beach to emergency medical situations in the backcountry.
• Ben shares the story of an octopus sticker creatively placed on his laptop
• Discussion of how people perceive and interact with psychedelics in different settings
• Ben recounts a transformative psilocybin experience while backpacking on the Olympic coast
• Detailed story of severely cutting his knee while searching for his girlfriend's phone
• Ben describes passing out and the disorienting experience of regaining consciousness
• Getting stitches and reflecting on the irony of learning to "let yourself be caught" right before needing help
• Conversation about the nature of wisdom and holding paradoxical truths
• Exploration of how busyness is often a judgment rather than an objective state
• Reflections on motivation, time management, and accepting our limitations
Thank you very much. Translation Sí Welcome everybody. We're having a good time out here. All right, that's the energy I need. Welcome to the podcast, everybody. We figured out karaoke. We figured out karaoke how we been doing it. We figured out the karaoke in this house.
Scott:What did it take?
Ben:Pretty quickly. Actually, it was probably incredibly unclear. Probably I should break it. That's our hype man, parker Dean everybody, probably I should. So man Parker, dean everybody, everybody say thank you. Round of applause. Round of applause.
Scott:Who's that? Who's on next?
Ben:Scott Johnston.
Scott:Hmm.
Ben:Scott Johnston, the professional singer.
Scott:I have to get my microphone game ready, ready. Last night we had a practice and I was singing back up and it was a whole new whoa. Okay, ben Johnston just disappeared. Maybe he'll figure it out soon enough and come right back, or maybe he won't and we'll have to cut it out. Well, a two-person podcast where I'm the only person talking doesn't work that well, because I'm only going to want to repeat stories I tell, so you know I could tell the story about how the microphone worked last night. But yeah, but yeah, cheers. I'm having coffee this morning and tea to help my voice. If you can tell my voice is a little down and out.
Ben:And now I'm going to go text Ben and say are you coming back?
Scott:Oh, man, his computer died and I'm filling the time. Okay, let me tell you a story about Ben's computer. He has this Apple MacBook Pro that he got. Oh, here he is, this Apple MacBook Pro that he got when he went off to college.
Scott:And I got inspired one day to like send him a sticker to customize his Apple MacBook Pro, his Apple MacBook Pro. And since he was like into scuba and things underwater, I got him a octopus decal where, if you applied it the way the sticker was intended the octopus decal the eyes would be lit up by the apple. It would cover the apple and then just the eyes would shine. So, ben, when he got it but I didn't explain it, it was one of those gifts where I just like sent it off mysteriously and it shows up in the mail and he goes what's this? And he didn't google it or anything and he just figured out how to apply it and did a far more creative thing where the the he placed it in the lower left corner so that the you can talk, ben, you're back here now. He placed it in the far left corner, yeah, you the camera is on the computer.
Scott:It's not going to work to show the back of the computer and the octopus is holding the apple up, like the, you know the um, like the evil witch in snow white, or, you know, offering Apple to be consumed. That was the story that came to my head.
Ben:It's a creative interpretation, I would say, but it is framed pretty perfectly between two of the octopus tentacles and the back of its head.
Scott:Yeah.
Ben:Also, if you're a perceptive viewer, you would notice that I said octopuses or actually, because that's a possessive. So of course we're saying it's the octopus's head. I think the plural of octopus is also actually octopuses.
Scott:You kept that glow-in-the-dark apple, you know, fully still available. So as the years have gone on, I thought, well, that was a completely legit way to use that, that decal I think it's legit.
Ben:I still have this computer, even though as soon as I unplug it from the wall, it dies yeah, later.
Scott:Yeah, I guess that's why I brought up the story, yeah what a buzzkill.
Ben:Man like oh, I had the energy growing so high. And then I'm just like, oh no, now the computer's just black. We had the Mario, just silence and Parker yelling in the background. God damn it. Parker, shut up and leave God.
Scott:I thought that was good. We can maybe use that as its own intro music.
Ben:Perfect. There are definitely copyright issues with that one, but yeah, let's do it.
Scott:Okay, I don't know what it is. Well, that was an obvious song.
Ben:I mean it. You know YouTube algorithm whenever you try to. You know, add a, add a video. Every time you try to add audio to a to a video. For how, however? I don't know how they do it, but they just like eliminate the music track. If you don't have the licensing, I'll figure it out if it can recognize the music track I mean yeah, I mean they, they would recognize that, for sure it.
Scott:I've been putting up a video clip per podcast episode and it says oh wait, it's going to take us 10 minutes to check to see if there's any copyright issues. And I go no, there's not, don't worry about it.
Ben:When they take your word for it, they just say yeah, that's OK, fine.
Scott:The only music that's copyrighted is our is our, you know, our intro or interstitial music, and we have permission from the artist, peter Johnson masters. Oh yeah, he owns it all.
Ben:That's good. That's good, that's smart.
Scott:Yeah.
Ben:That's, that's smart show business. That's really good. Yeah, that's smart show business.
Scott:That's really good yeah.
Ben:Hey yeah that was a well welcome everyone. I'm sorry about all that confusion. I'm sure it sounds like you were. You were telling the story of my dinosaur laptop. Is that what it was?
Scott:Your, your, well, yeah, your octopus dinosaur laptop.
Ben:I actually had an appointment to go to a computer repair store yesterday, but I just skipped it. I've been really scared to take it in. I just need a new computer. I need a new phone and I need a new computer. It's ridiculous. This is a conversation for us to have off the podcast. People don't need to hear about my financial squeeze. How's it going Good? What did you do?
Scott:today, today's show day.
Ben:Oh, big day. Oh, I just zoomed in, face is bigger. Happened again. Another weird thing my computer does.
Scott:And go on the stage at 840. And the name of our band this time is Satellite Crush.
Ben:Satellite Crush.
Scott:Yeah, nice, everybody hears that and they go, oh, that's a good band name, how'd you think of it? Everybody hears that and they go that's a good band name, how'd you think of it? And then I don't want to tell them how, because it's like someone asking like, oh, how did you meet your significant other? And you have to say, like tinder, so you can guess you came up up yeah, chat, gpt. I fed in the list of the eight songs we're doing and say can you suggest 10 band names? And nine of them were horrible and one of them like everyone, and I call that what was one of the horrible ones?
Ben:I do not remember, they were just so. They were so bad.
Scott:They weren't even remember rocket boy or something singing rocket man, I don't know. You know something really? Uh, a trite compilation. Yeah, when, when your computer went out, I was telling the story of how practice last night, I'm singing backup in a new setup, we were in the hall which has different mics, different PA setup and I was like, oh, this is completely different what I'm hearing while I'm singing. Hearing while I'm singing and at sometimes I felt like I was doing the throat singing thing, because I could hear the octave below and the octave above at the same time and because everything's so noisy in the middle of the song, it's like I wasn't really sure which one I was really singing. Okay, that that's an undertone. I didn't even know undertones were a thing it's like. Or is that just the growl in my voice?
Ben:Because you can hear I've got kind of a cold.
Scott:So that's why I just have that perfectly gravelly and smooth tea with honey For my throat, and then oh coffee with caffeine, because coffee with cough syrup I like drugs, but this is my chosen one.
Ben:I think you've gone over that, yeah and all the other drugs are not chosen. They're given to you involuntarily. Yes, yes, I had some drugs yesterday, maybe some lidocaine.
Scott:Oh, you had something you want to see my wound you want to see me. Sure, I almost locked my leg. All the listeners want to see it too. What you got bit. I don't see what's happening. Oh, it's covered up it is covered up did you? Were you chopping wood and you missed, or what?
Ben:oh, luckily, no, no, I went on a little backpacking trip this last weekend. I was also uh, let's see, I had also taken a little psilocybin kind of a couple of hours before it happened too. I was all shroomed out, and I was probably also still high on caffeine. God, drugs man, I'm fucked up. These days I feel like I'm always getting something in my system.
Scott:And what did you discover?
Ben:Two cups of coffee is kind of typical for me these last couple weeks and I'm like, oh, is it always going to be this way? Oh, my God.
Ben:When you intermittently use a psychedelic you know, at least at the start you can come up with some great discoveries that your brain has been waiting to think, yeah, it was fantastic, yeah, it was nice, it was a really small dose and at one point I was looking around and it was one of those things where I just like felt a uh, really special sense. It was just like an embodied. You know, I've been able to intellectualize the idea recently of just like. You know, it's okay to just chill out and just to like have, just just to like let yourself be, let yourself be caught by the people that love you. You don't have anything to prove, ben. And when you're microdosing on shrooms and you take a moment to just like meditate on some sea anemones and barnacles and like rocks at the beach at low tide, you're just like have this next level of just like sort of release and just like, oh, that is true, isn't it? I really can just let myself be. Huh.
Scott:So it was the magic of, of relationships, Um, probably also the magic of. Like you and all these other uh molecules are sitting there doing this thing like here you are an animal, what looking endogenously or exogenous molecules, both the right term both yeah, right yeah, yeah, it's like you're all.
Scott:There's this thing growing that looks funny and green, like with tentacles, half under the water, and it's there, and it's always there. Yeah, right, and you're this mobile version of the same stuff that can walk around and come visit it yeah, see, if you had told me that in that moment, it would have just been like.
Ben:Probably would have almost brought tears to my eyes because it's so silly. You know, that's what I think. That's why hippies get so much shit is because they're like. Often being like isn't?
Ben:it amazing, oh man people are just like, oh my god, get a real job, jesus. But it's like if you're really tapped in and open to the wonder of life, like that, it is really profound stuff and we just get kind of blocked off from the way the world talks to us. That's why people like psychedelics is because you just like have that, you just have that access to awe, just on a completely different level.
Scott:The one I remember from some tv show I don't know if it was police squad or no movie where well it's just, someone has a horton. Here's the who, like um revelation, as they're staring. They got stoned and they're staring at their fingernail, which I think is kind of a lame thing, because it's just not true. It's like you mean inside the molecules of my fingernail there could be a whole nother universe. What?
Ben:do you mean it's not true? Do we know that is that? Has quantum, quantum physics shown that that's not true? It might be a really stupid question for all those people that know more about physics than I do.
Scott:I suppose, since the Big Bang was infinitely small, that there could be other Big Bangs inside everything. But I think it's kind of an impractical thing. It's like imagine there's a dragon in the garage that you can't see. It's like so what's the point?
Ben:yeah, is it?
Scott:there could be like galaxies within your even if they are, you can never measure them, you never see them, so why talk about them? Yeah, it's just imagine, people like wow, well, that's interesting because we're getting into that's the wonder of, of, uh, that stuff, and I can't think of a word for it and also the necessary intellectual safeguards against when you get too lost in it.
Ben:Life is just about paradox. Some say that wisdom is really just being able to hold two opposing truths all at once.
Scott:That's what they say, but they're just contradicted, yeah, or living in contradiction, but they're just contradicted, yeah, or living in contradiction. It's like something about that always kind of bothers me. It's like, well, how can they? It's not that they're both true and exactly opposed. It's like they're both reflections of underlying truth in different ways. That's, you know what is. You can't say that what is is incompatible and that you know, all of a sudden, once you fully understand, it'll collapse into nothing, because, um, it's just incompatible. It's like, no, they're not incompatible, you're actually.
Ben:You just think they're incompatible right, they're actually like fully and completely fused with each other yeah, they're just part of of this universe of elements running around, wow. This is really.
Scott:Wow, damn, I quit weed again. So it's not smoking, that's doing that.
Ben:Maybe it's because I did shrooms the other day. Yeah, yeah, so I was on shrooms when I got these stitches.
Scott:You just ran into a tree. What did you do?
Ben:More or less no. So I was caught that's an exaggeration. I got stitches yesterday at the doctor's office and I got hurt the day before. So we microdosed on shrooms, went about, our days went on a nice long walk along the beach. It was beautiful, it was fun. I got lost in the barnacles and the sea and enemies, walked down this expansive beach on the Olympic coast with my bare feet. Got back to camp, had lunch and we packed up.
Ben:Back to camp, had lunch and we packed up and there was a little rope swing near the camp and the whole forest floor was just covered in lily leaves so you couldn't actually see what was on the floor and it was kind of like soft undulating hills throughout the forest and my girlfriend was swinging on the rope swing and she dropped her phone, like into the forest floor and so me, being who I am, just like got down on the floor and an army crawled under her and like was looking around like feverishly pretending I was like a Green Beret, looking for, like I don't know, some grenade that was about to go off, to like save her or whatever.
Ben:And I was, and I found it and then I turned around and then I like handed it up to her. And then I was just like reaching out and just like rolling around on the on the ground, just like now I was. Now I was in lava monster mode, just being like, and when I finally, like had spun around to get up, I swung my leg around on the floor and then it just like knocked into something. I don't know if it was like a big, like knotted log I couldn't see anything or if it was a rock, but I like just knocked my knee right into it and then I like got up and I was like, ow, that hurt. And then you know how babies will like fall. And then they like just wake up, like, they just like get up like flabbergasted, like oh wow, what just happened.
Scott:Like what are? What are those?
Ben:feelings am I yeah like, and then they're like trying to like, just assess their whole. They're just doing this whole body scan, just instantaneously and subconsciously, and then after a few seconds you start to notice in their face it's like oh, their face is starting to twist a little bit. They're not there. Start, okay, they're gonna start crying soon. They just need to, like the pain needs to. The neurotransmitters are getting flooded out right now.
Scott:Okay, but first they're going to look around and see.
Ben:Is anybody going to notice I'm crying yeah, that right, and then they need to decide how they're going to actually, you know, let out these emotions, uh, and express the pain. And so all that to say is, just, it took me like first. First a few seconds later, I'm like, oh, that actually hurts a lot. And then, like 10 to 15 seconds later, I was like I'm kind of feeling nauseous, like, oh my God. And then I was like I think it was just such a painful cut that my brain or body wasn't able to like fully, just like feel, just like the raw pain in that place. And then it started to do this thing in my brain to like, I don't know, protect myself from feeling the pain. I don't really know what.
Ben:But I got up and I'm like, okay, this is like starting to like really hurt, like my knee is kind of like buzzing, and so I sat down and I was starting to get a headache. And then I was like, okay, I need to look at this. And it had torn through my pants. And then I looked down and all three layers of skin just cut right through, all three layers of skin just cut right through.
Ben:And when I looked at it, I'm like I'm seeing different tissues in there and then I laid back in the log and I'm like I was looking at the trees and just like watching them move in the breeze. It was kind of overcast and I'm just like, okay, we have about three miles to get back, some muddy hills to walk over. It hasn't really started bleeding yet, but it might start bleeding a lot, okay.
Ben:At least the pants were already cut so you could use them Well, and they were loose enough where I had them like tucked all the way up to my hip pretty much. So it was exposed. Um, and just thinking about it now I'm getting nauseous. And I Nicole, came, my girlfriend came and like checked on me and saw it and was like, oh yeah, that's bad. And so she ran off to get a first aid kit and, um, I was just laying there and while she was off I don't know how long had passed, but probably 10 I was probably laying on the log for 30 or 45 seconds and next thing I remember I was on the ground, face floor, face. First. I didn't even know where I was. I had passed out and I I passed out a couple of times before this too, uh, throughout life.
Ben:And it's a really, really scary experience because when you first pass out, it's just like, oh, it just felt asleep and that's all. It really feels like um, but I had rolled off of the log and I was like face down. I didn't know I was face down because I was asleep. But when you start to come to like, it's this gradual process where, like, sensory information starts to come back online, but there's no meaning making going on, so it's just words and sounds and like feelings and like a light coming in through my half open eyes, and so it's just this jumbled, just like storm of sensory information that you make no sense of. And at first it's not scary because you're not making any sense of it, so you can't really feel scared about it. But then your kind of thinking brain starts to come back online too, but it's only halfway there, at least that's how it feels, and then I'm just like I have no idea where the fuck I am.
Ben:I just feel like I'm lost in like space and oblivion of, just like this flurry of things were you fearful at that moment, or just like oh, I was fearful for a few seconds, maybe I don't know how long it was, but probably like two or three seconds of like really intense fear, just like, oh my god, what is, where am I? Because I didn't remember the last however many seconds. You know, I didn't remember falling off the log, but I I was starting to come to but had no idea, like what, where I was or what was going on. Um, and then Nicole came over and it kind of felt like she was some like backpack.
Ben:I didn't recognize her at first. She just came over. She didn't know I passed out. She thought I was just being overly dramatic. She and she was standing over me and she doesn't usually wear bright red colors. And so she said like Ben, get back up on the log, get back up on the log. And I just thought, and I remember just like looking up and just being like wow, who is this person? Okay, okay, things are starting to come back to me. I'm hurt, I, I have a cut. Okay, a cut, okay, I'm okay. Think, okay, there's some backpacker that really knows what they're doing. Like, oh, wilderness, first aid person is here to save the day. Oh, thank god.
Scott:And then I got back up on the law and, from her perspective, you were this guy who was just rolling around on the ground and injured himself. It's like, yeah, come on, ben, let's stop doing that.
Ben:Exactly. And meanwhile I was just like like waking up from like a fucking DMT trip or something, yeah, and so I just scrambled back up on the log and was like, oh, I feel a lot better now, now that I've passed out, this is okay. And now I'm actually feeling into the actual spot and like, yeah, that hurts and I can feel a little bit of blood dripping out, um, and then I realize it's nicole, and then, like that, there's like this extra layer of relaxation too, because I'm like, oh, she's okay, help is help is already Help is already here.
Scott:Did you ask her how long it took? From how long do you think you were out?
Ben:I don't actually know. I still like I didn't, I actually still haven't directly asked her.
Scott:Where did she get a first aid kit?
Ben:Our friend Maggie who was still packing. We were playing because we were just waiting for our friend Barrett and Maggie to finish packing up. We had packed up our. I had just finished packing up my camp so you mean she? Just went to another place in the campground yeah, exactly, and it was kind of a backpacking trip so it was pretty much back country.
Ben:So there was no, there was no one else around well, good thing, someone uh had first aid with them I know it's crazy too, because I have a little first aid like backpacking kit but and I reorganized all my backpacking stuff recently but somehow I misplaced that and before we left for the trip I was like I don't have my first aid kit. Oh, it's a short trip, it'll be okay, but just goes to show like always when those thoughts come to you.
Scott:Yeah on them. Yeah, that's, that's your little whatever gift of like hey, ben, you should have a first aid kit. Yeah, I usually don't think of that, why. Why should I have one? Just trust me, ben, just just do it.
Ben:Yeah, and all maggie really had was like a little bit of like anti-biotic ointment and like a couple of band-aids so how long before the helicopter showed up?
Ben:I didn't come till yesterday, so we had to spend an extra night. I brought a lot of food, though, so we're okay. No, I'm just kidding. I laid on the log for a little bit longer and I told Nicole I just passed out so hard. I don't know if people were scared or something, but like when I first said that it's like people, it's like she didn't hear me or something, she did, but I think she didn't want to talk about it she was like I like that sounds scary. I just need to do this right now. I just need to get this cleaned up, and like I mean, did she even know about you? Make sure you're okay.
Scott:And we can get out of here. Does she know about your history of vasovagal? No. Now Does she know about your history of vasovagal? No.
Ben:Now she does, now she does. I didn't tell her that until later.
Scott:Wow.
Ben:Yeah, but and then things were okay and I was able to walk back. It started. The wound opened up again while we were halfway through the hike, but I was. I got a bunch of Tylenol in me before we started walking and ended up being okay. It was funny because I like felt, just just you know, like half an hour before I had been feeling that, like you know, great sense of connectedness to the anemones and felt like, wow, I have a lot of love in my, in my life, and if I just like learn how to let myself be a little bit more, I can really be caught, I can really take things more easily. It's okay that I have emotions. My emotions don't have to define me and I can just let myself feel what I need to feel and still love and go through life. And then, just you know, not an hour later, and still love and go through life, and then, just you know, not an hour later.
Scott:I was like really truly having to like let myself just be caught and taken care of. And when you saw that, when you saw that cut, you go like oh you knew you needed stitches, right, I didn't.
Ben:I didn't really. I just knew that I'm like'm like. Oh, this is the worst cut I've ever had. I don't really know what it means.
Scott:I saw that once when I fell solemn water skiing fell backwards and and the ski was in front of me and the ski went between my toes, sideways, and then I could see like, oh, there's more layers to the skin than I knew.
Ben:Makes my balls tingle to think about God. Yikes, hope we don't make any viewers pass out this episode. This is like an episode of that MTV show Scarred. Yeah, I think we've talked about that before on the podcast actually, apologies everybody, yeah, but I came home that night, sunday night, and got it all cleaned up and got stitches. Yesterday morning Just went to urgent care. It was fun.
Scott:That's why I got lidocaine. This episode brought to you by lidocaine. Thank you very much, everybody lidocaine, the drug that you use for. What do you use it for?
Ben:uh, she poked me. It's like tooth surgery too, I think they just give you a dollop in your skin. Oh, it's a painkiller. Yeah, and so she gave that was. The most painful part about the process was her sticking the lidocaine needle in. And then she waited a few seconds and then she started poking me with the needle and I was like, does this hurt, does this hurt? And I was like, does this hurt, does this hurt? And I was like, no, I don't feel anything. She's like great.
Scott:And then she just stitched me right up great well, at least painkillers are real, even though vaccines don't work I got a vaccine yesterday too.
Ben:Idiot over here, god, I wish you were there to tell me I shouldn't have gotten it yeah, sorry, I don't want our listeners to be dismayed. I'm making a joke about how there are people who would never platforms are going to have all those like disclaimers like here.
Scott:Go to the cdc website for more information about vaccines yeah, but I'm sure, though, if someone didn't believe in vaccines, they would believe in painkillers when the time came to need one. You know, which is like, okay, you're glad that doctors and hospitals and emergency rooms exist when you need one, but if you can't, yeah, so lidocaine lidocaine or other kinds of painkillers I don't know, are useful for medical medical work to get done.
Ben:Thank you for whoever invented these things bro, before I got in before it's covered then it started giving me the stitches, I wondered, like I wonder if I could ever do this without painkillers. And then, as she was like doing the whole process, I'm like jesus christ, like there's no freaking way, like I don't.
Scott:You've got to be pretty tough to sew yourself without painkillers.
Ben:Yeah, that's why they always put the pencil in their mouth. You have no choice but to just scream your head off.
Scott:That could be reality. That might just be made for Hollywood factoid, I guess, who are we going to ask?
Ben:Yeah, pedro Pascal, we'll have to ask him what it was like when they stitched him up for when his Last of Us scenes oh that's real you know, Really I don't believe that.
Ben:Was he also the mandalorian? Uh, I never watched the mandalorian, but I think so. I don't actually have you ever felt like you're too busy in life no what was the busiest point? What's what's the busiest? You're too busy in life. No, what was the busiest point? What's the busiest like? What period in life have you ever felt like the most busy and was it too busy?
Scott:And what changed? If so, I don't know. I'm just kind of impossible of looking at things that way. It's like there's I can't rush 24 hours of a day. I can't speed them up, I can't slow them down. Um yeah, Too busy would mean there's a whole bunch of stuff I promised to get done that I'm not getting done.
Ben:Um, and yeah, that's an interesting way of looking at it getting done. Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting way of looking at it.
Scott:And that then, then that was causing me grief. Yeah, but since I'm on the opposite side of the confidence game, I don't ever project to people that I got all this confidence, all this can be done. I'm always like underselling, like what can happen I see yeah um so yeah, that's a.
Ben:I've never really heard of busyness. I agree, though, that that's true that busyness is kind of like a judgment call. To say that you're busy means that there's more stuff. I guess it depends on. Some people just say like no, busyness just means like I'm actively working kind of all the time, and but I think, for someone like you or me, I think of busyness as like a judgment call that says I have too much actually going on right now yeah, I'm.
Scott:If you had given me the question ahead of time, I could have thought about it well, maybe that my, my instinct is like I'm pretty good at um almost too good at not taking on too much yeah yeah. So it's like the unbusiness is more the bother than the busyness, like, oh, I got, nobody needs me to do anything today. There's nothing to look forward to now.
Ben:I yeah, so you run into that kind of psychological dilemma as well because I do also. It's like I feel like I don't have enough happening right now to keep myself busy.
Scott:Yeah, I mean I'm. I'm trying to stick more with, just like you know, saying thank you to what is. Um, there are times when I can't get everything I want done in a day, but that's usually a motivational issue, not a not a time issue.
Ben:Like.
Scott:I can't stand doing any more of this because it just causes me too much anxiety. So I'm only going to be able to get it half done today and I'll get the other half done tomorrow. So I'm only going to be able to get it half done today and I'll get the other half done tomorrow. Actually, instead of being a failure, I found is kind of like oh, that's a good learn technique, you know for sure. Yeah, better to do half of it today and half of it tomorrow. Then, don't realize, don't start it today, that's the worst outcome.
Ben:Realize that there are real constraints that are imposed upon us by the reality of time. It's a thing to be aware of, speaking of how about you Less than a minute.
Scott:How about you Quickly tell us? Why does Zoom do this?
Ben:We have less than a minute, why don't you give us the timer still? Why don't you tell us how many seconds? You give us how many seconds for 10 whole minutes and then, when it matters most, you're just like, nope, we're not going to tell you anymore.
Scott:How? About me, yes, I always feel busy.
Ben:I feel way too busy right now, and that's why I brought the question up, so maybe we can keep talking.
Scott:Okay, we can keep talking. We have that power. We can turn off the the podcast and keep on talking. You have that you.
